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	<title>Comments on: The Fountainhead.  Ayn Rand.</title>
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		<title>By: Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand. &#171; 2sparrows</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand. &#171; 2sparrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-308</guid>
		<description>[...] all gratitude is in Man, and Man&#8217;s ability to reason and to act.  In both this book, and in The Fountainhead, the heroes never see beauty in the natural world outside of their ability to change it via their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all gratitude is in Man, and Man&#8217;s ability to reason and to act.  In both this book, and in The Fountainhead, the heroes never see beauty in the natural world outside of their ability to change it via their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Fountainhead. 1949. &#171; 2sparrows</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>The Fountainhead. 1949. &#171; 2sparrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 01:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-279</guid>
		<description>[...] a comment &#187;   After reading The Fountainhead (see post here), and then finding out there was a movie, I had to see it.  I was sckeptical that a movie, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a comment &raquo;   After reading The Fountainhead (see post here), and then finding out there was a movie, I had to see it.  I was sckeptical that a movie, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: seanb724</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>seanb724</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-223</guid>
		<description>FYI my Dad said that Rand came to his individual classes a couple times, so he was not referring to when she addressed the graduating class.  I still look forward to seeing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI my Dad said that Rand came to his individual classes a couple times, so he was not referring to when she addressed the graduating class.  I still look forward to seeing it.</p>
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		<title>By: seanb724</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>seanb724</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Brian, thanks for finding that CD/video.  I will get it and see if it is the same as when my dad taught at West Point.  Also, I am about 300 pages into Atlas Shrugged.

MichaelIM, thanks for the detailed comments...  Seeing your words gives me more insight into Rand&#039;s ideas as presented in The Fountainhead.  These ideas are all still fairly new to me so I need time to process them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, thanks for finding that CD/video.  I will get it and see if it is the same as when my dad taught at West Point.  Also, I am about 300 pages into Atlas Shrugged.</p>
<p>MichaelIM, thanks for the detailed comments&#8230;  Seeing your words gives me more insight into Rand&#8217;s ideas as presented in The Fountainhead.  These ideas are all still fairly new to me so I need time to process them.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelM</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-221</guid>
		<description>seanb724,

Re altruism, Rand&#039;s ethics is grounded on the fact of our being living entities whose most fundamental purpose is to live -- to survive and flourish as what we are (in accordance with our nature). That means that in all of the choices of the actions that constitute living,  we must evaluate them in respect to their potential contribution to or denigration of our life. If our life is to be our standard of value, then the simple unavoidable ethical mandate is: never give up a higher value in exchange for a lower value. That is the meaning of egoism and selfishness *in principle*, and there is no human choice to which that principle cannot be applied. 

Consequently as Ben correctly noted, many acts usually considered to be self-sacrificial are actually self-interested. An example would be donating money to a scholarship fund because you want to live in a well educated world. Altruism, on the other hand, establishes as a virtue giving up money you need for other more important purposes because you have bought into the idea that you are your brother&#039;s keeper. Giving  up a lower value of any kind to gain a higher one can never be altruism. Altruism requires that you act against your life and for the life of another.  One of the great contradictions in this corrupt idea is the guilt laid on the receiver of altruism&#039;s largesse.

Re extremes, Ben is also on the right track in saying that her extreme examples were intentional. But there is more to it than that. The attempt of previous philosophers to paint truth gray is the enemy she set out to destroy. Truth (the accurate identification of existence) is the source of life. Our actions in accordance with it are its implementation in the service of our life. The validity of philosophical ideas is inherently a life and death issue. What can be more black and white than that? Note also that &quot;extreme&quot; is merely a quantitative qualification. &quot;Right and wrong&quot; are qualitative. Why would you want to be any less thatn extremely right? Right has nothing to gain from a compromise with or cooperation with &quot;wrong&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seanb724,</p>
<p>Re altruism, Rand&#8217;s ethics is grounded on the fact of our being living entities whose most fundamental purpose is to live &#8212; to survive and flourish as what we are (in accordance with our nature). That means that in all of the choices of the actions that constitute living,  we must evaluate them in respect to their potential contribution to or denigration of our life. If our life is to be our standard of value, then the simple unavoidable ethical mandate is: never give up a higher value in exchange for a lower value. That is the meaning of egoism and selfishness *in principle*, and there is no human choice to which that principle cannot be applied. </p>
<p>Consequently as Ben correctly noted, many acts usually considered to be self-sacrificial are actually self-interested. An example would be donating money to a scholarship fund because you want to live in a well educated world. Altruism, on the other hand, establishes as a virtue giving up money you need for other more important purposes because you have bought into the idea that you are your brother&#8217;s keeper. Giving  up a lower value of any kind to gain a higher one can never be altruism. Altruism requires that you act against your life and for the life of another.  One of the great contradictions in this corrupt idea is the guilt laid on the receiver of altruism&#8217;s largesse.</p>
<p>Re extremes, Ben is also on the right track in saying that her extreme examples were intentional. But there is more to it than that. The attempt of previous philosophers to paint truth gray is the enemy she set out to destroy. Truth (the accurate identification of existence) is the source of life. Our actions in accordance with it are its implementation in the service of our life. The validity of philosophical ideas is inherently a life and death issue. What can be more black and white than that? Note also that &#8220;extreme&#8221; is merely a quantitative qualification. &#8220;Right and wrong&#8221; are qualitative. Why would you want to be any less thatn extremely right? Right has nothing to gain from a compromise with or cooperation with &#8220;wrong&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-220</guid>
		<description>I believe there is a video of her giving a speech at West Point somewhere - maybe he&#039;s in it!

...

I just found it: If you go to www.aynrandinfo.com it says you can get a free CD of her speech to graduates of West Point.

I suggest picking up Atlas Shrugged now that you&#039;ve finished The Fountainhead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe there is a video of her giving a speech at West Point somewhere &#8211; maybe he&#8217;s in it!</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>I just found it: If you go to <a href="http://www.aynrandinfo.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.aynrandinfo.com</a> it says you can get a free CD of her speech to graduates of West Point.</p>
<p>I suggest picking up Atlas Shrugged now that you&#8217;ve finished The Fountainhead.</p>
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		<title>By: seanb724</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-219</link>
		<dc:creator>seanb724</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-219</guid>
		<description>I emailed my Dad about Ayn Rand to see what he thinks of her, and this was his response:


&lt;em&gt;She is one of my favorites I have read every one of her books. I used a couple  at West Point. She was still alive while we were there and she came to speak to the cadets.&lt;/em&gt;

I had guessed, from my reading of The Fountainhead, that he would like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I emailed my Dad about Ayn Rand to see what he thinks of her, and this was his response:</p>
<p><em>She is one of my favorites I have read every one of her books. I used a couple  at West Point. She was still alive while we were there and she came to speak to the cadets.</em></p>
<p>I had guessed, from my reading of The Fountainhead, that he would like it.</p>
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		<title>By: seanb724</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-218</link>
		<dc:creator>seanb724</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-218</guid>
		<description>Ben, one thing I didn&#039;t bring up in this &quot;review&quot; -- and there were a lot of things I did not bring up as it is a big book with a lot of big ideas -- is what you mention regarding her cultural background.  I am 300 pages into Atlas Shrugged, and she continues to bash socialism / collectivism.  She did that to some extent in The Fountainhead, but not nearly as much in Atlas Shrugged.   

What is interesting about that, to me, is that I was am not aware of any such large collectivist or socialist movement within the US at that time.  Of course, I am not an historian, though.  :-)   But it seems somewhat out of place.  Again, though, I think it goes back to how black and white she is with her characters, and in this case with this theme.  She is an adamant individualist and capitalist, both the polar extremes of collectivism and socialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, one thing I didn&#8217;t bring up in this &#8220;review&#8221; &#8212; and there were a lot of things I did not bring up as it is a big book with a lot of big ideas &#8212; is what you mention regarding her cultural background.  I am 300 pages into Atlas Shrugged, and she continues to bash socialism / collectivism.  She did that to some extent in The Fountainhead, but not nearly as much in Atlas Shrugged.   </p>
<p>What is interesting about that, to me, is that I was am not aware of any such large collectivist or socialist movement within the US at that time.  Of course, I am not an historian, though.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />    But it seems somewhat out of place.  Again, though, I think it goes back to how black and white she is with her characters, and in this case with this theme.  She is an adamant individualist and capitalist, both the polar extremes of collectivism and socialism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blog.2sparrows.org/2008/08/29/the-fountainhead-ayn-rand/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2sparrows.wordpress.com/?p=571#comment-217</guid>
		<description>With regard to #3, I was going to make a statement about Western Culture, but I&#039;m afraid it may apply to much of humanity in general. What I&#039;ve noticed isn&#039;t unique about people generally being sheep as opposed to individualists. I think people are followers of the masses instead of independent thinkers because it&#039;s easier. To illustrate my point, I&#039;ll quote a great individual instead of coming up with something catchy myself. &quot;Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it.&quot; - Henry Ford
People like acceptance and always being an individual pretty much excludes one from the &quot;fitting in&quot; that most crave. 
After reading your review (well done) of The Fountainhead, I think I may want to pick it up now. I&#039;ve been halfway wanting to read Atlas Shrugged for a while, but was non-committal on it. When I read a little more of her background, I found it interesting that Ayn Rand&#039;s cultural and developmental influences were so different. The oppression that she experiences in the upcoming communist regime in early 20th century Russia combined with and compared to the free expression and liberal ideals of Hollywood (comparatively speaking) which she was in the middle of during her most prominent writings. 
When you mentioned that you thought that one of her examples was taken to extremes, I think that&#039;s probably on purpose. For illustrative purposes, she has to use the best example possible to get her point across without there being any gray area which could lead to confusion. Rand was obviously an intelligent person and I think that she understood that reality is rooted in much different terms. 
The part on altruism not being a virtue is also interesting and a commonly debated topic amongst philosophers. Some argue that people don&#039;t really do anything that they don&#039;t WANT to do. This in itself defies the nature of pure altruism as many think of it. People may say that they&#039;re doing something for the good of others, but they do it because they want to. Others may say that they don&#039;t WANT to do something (for the benefit of others) but they do it anyway because they feel they are supposed to do it or are being obedient to some other ideal. The fact that they physically will themselves to perform an action means that they want to do that action regardless of the motivation is the basis for the argument that altruism by definition doesn&#039;t really exist. However, I understand Rand&#039;s humanistic position that self-service is a better trait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to #3, I was going to make a statement about Western Culture, but I&#8217;m afraid it may apply to much of humanity in general. What I&#8217;ve noticed isn&#8217;t unique about people generally being sheep as opposed to individualists. I think people are followers of the masses instead of independent thinkers because it&#8217;s easier. To illustrate my point, I&#8217;ll quote a great individual instead of coming up with something catchy myself. &#8220;Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason why so few engage in it.&#8221; &#8211; Henry Ford<br />
People like acceptance and always being an individual pretty much excludes one from the &#8220;fitting in&#8221; that most crave.<br />
After reading your review (well done) of The Fountainhead, I think I may want to pick it up now. I&#8217;ve been halfway wanting to read Atlas Shrugged for a while, but was non-committal on it. When I read a little more of her background, I found it interesting that Ayn Rand&#8217;s cultural and developmental influences were so different. The oppression that she experiences in the upcoming communist regime in early 20th century Russia combined with and compared to the free expression and liberal ideals of Hollywood (comparatively speaking) which she was in the middle of during her most prominent writings.<br />
When you mentioned that you thought that one of her examples was taken to extremes, I think that&#8217;s probably on purpose. For illustrative purposes, she has to use the best example possible to get her point across without there being any gray area which could lead to confusion. Rand was obviously an intelligent person and I think that she understood that reality is rooted in much different terms.<br />
The part on altruism not being a virtue is also interesting and a commonly debated topic amongst philosophers. Some argue that people don&#8217;t really do anything that they don&#8217;t WANT to do. This in itself defies the nature of pure altruism as many think of it. People may say that they&#8217;re doing something for the good of others, but they do it because they want to. Others may say that they don&#8217;t WANT to do something (for the benefit of others) but they do it anyway because they feel they are supposed to do it or are being obedient to some other ideal. The fact that they physically will themselves to perform an action means that they want to do that action regardless of the motivation is the basis for the argument that altruism by definition doesn&#8217;t really exist. However, I understand Rand&#8217;s humanistic position that self-service is a better trait.</p>
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