Questions From Riley

[ I’ve decided to make this a new category, as the questions are pretty fascinating, and are sometimes deep enough that I need to spend time myself grappling with them before I give Riley an answer! ]

Recently, out of the blue:

“Did God make Himself?”

I kind of hate to admit it, but that was about the end of it at the time. It was a non sequitur as we weren’t talking of God or anything theological at all, and she didn’t really push it at the time. But I “flagged” it (by sending myself an email on my Blackberry) to follow up on.

I was amazed that a 5 year old would ask this question, but after digging around online, I did find at least one other 5 year old has asked a similar question here. I am not crazy about the answer the poster gives to the child, but it really is a hard one to answer at any level that someone that young will comprehend.

I consulted my Systematic Theology book, but found nothing relevant under the nature of God. Maybe I’m not looking up the right words. So I turned to the Internet and used searches like “did God make Himself” and “Where did God come from.”

I found answers like the following from this page:

The question is tricky because it sneaks in the false assumption that God came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, “What does blue smell like?” Blue is not in the category of things that have odor, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, God is not in the category of things that are created, or come into existence, or are caused. God is uncaused and uncreated – He simply exists.

How do we know this? Well, we know that from nothing, nothing comes. So if there was ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence then nothing would have ever come to exist. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been existing. That ever-existing thing is what we call God.

I’m not exactly crazy about that answer, though, which is just a variation of the cosmological argument, and in my mind leaves something to be desired.

The simple answer for a 5 year old is that “God has always existed,” and that seems to be the sentiment of most Christian Theologins as well. The following answer from this page is the best answer I found:

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God’s existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: “without beginning or end”; “eternal”; “infinite”, etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: ” . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” (Psalm 90:2). And, “Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting” (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn’t. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people’s lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is “beyond the chart.” He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end — and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

And I don’t have a problem with that. It is the same feeling I have towards the Trinity (and other deep issues)… There are certain things that we can not understand with our limited human minds. If I could box up God and put him on a shelf and fully understand him, where would I need faith, or where would the dependence come from? I want a God that is bigger than me and my understanding.

Now, try explaining that to a 5 year old!

Quote from Into the Wild #4

[Update] I have been getting a lot of hits on the “quote from into the wild” posts — the ones like this that are just a quote without my personal context of the book and movie… So I am going to put in links to my posts on:

the book

the movie

The physical domain of the country had its counterpart in me. The trails I made led outward into the hills and swamps, but they led inward also. And from the study of things underfoot, and from reading and thinking, came a kind of exploration, myself and the land. In time the two become one in my mind. With the gather force of an essential thing realizing itself out of early ground, I face in myself a passionate and tenacious longing — to put away thought forever, and all the trouble it bring, all but the nearest desire, direct and searching. To take the trail and not look back. Whether on foot, on snowshoes or by sled, into the summer hilsls and their late freezing shadows — a high blaze, a runner track in the snow would show me where I had gone. Let the rest of mankind find me if it could.

— John Hains. The Stars, The Snow, The Fire: Twenty-five years in the Northern Wilderness.

Quote from Into the Wild #3

[Update] I have been getting a lot of hits on the “quote from into the wild” posts — the ones like this that are just a quote without my personal context of the book and movie… So I am going to put in links to my posts on:

the book

the movie

Now what is history? It is the centuries of systematic explorations of the riddle of death, with a view to overcoming death. That’s why people discover mathematical infinity and electromagnetic waves, that’s why the write symphonies.. Now, you can’t advance in this direction without a certain faith. You can’t make such discoveries without spiritual equipment. And the basic elements of this equipment are in the Gospels. What are they? To begin with, love of one’s neighbor, which is the supreme form of vital energy. Once it fills the hear of man it has to overflow and spend itself. And then two basic ideals of modern man — without them he is unthinkable — the idea of free personality and the idea of life as sacrifice.

Boris Pasternak, Doctor Zhvago.

(McCandless underlined love of one’s neighbor, free personality, and life as sacrifice — I’ve used red and bold here.)

Quote from Into the Wild #2

[Update] I have been getting a lot of hits on the “quote from into the wild” posts — the ones like this that are just a quote without my personal context of the book and movie… So I am going to put in links to my posts on:

the book

the movie

I cannot tell now exactly, it was so long ago, under what circumstances I first ascended, only that I shuddered as I went along (I have an indistinct remembrance of having been out overnight alone), — and then I steadily ascended along a rocky ridge half clad with stinted trees, where wild beasts haunted, till I lost myself quite in the upper air and clouds, seeming to pass an imaginary line which separates a hill, mere earth heaped up, from a mountain, into a superterraean grandeur and sublimity. What distinguishes that summitt above the earthly line, is that it is unhandselled, awful, grand. It can never become familiar; you are lost the moment you set foot there. You know the path, but wander, thrilled, over the bare pathless rock, as if it were solidified air and cloud. That rocky, misty summitt, secreted in the clouds, was far more thrillingly awful and sublime than the crate ofa volcano sprouting fire.

Thoreau. Journal.

(I get a similar feeling when I hike up mountains!  What an amazing writer Thoreau is — he has a sublime way with words.)

Quote from Into the Wild #1

[Update] I have been getting a lot of hits on the “quote from into the wild” posts — the ones like this that are just a quote without my personal context of the book and movie… So I am going to put in links to my posts on:

the book

the movie

Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth. I sat at a table where were rich food and wine in abundance , and obsequious attendance, but sincerity and truth, were not; and I went away hungry from the inhospitable board. The hospitality was as cold as the ices.

Thoreau — Walden.

Into the Wild. Jon Krakauer.

I read this years ago, apparently before I started keeping my “reading notebook” online in 2000, but I had to read it again after watching the movie recently. And I’ve been listening to the soundtrack more, which I started after seeing the movie. I didn’t listen to it that much when I first bought it, but it is apparent now that Eddie Vedder did a masterful job with the music and lyrics. He’s always been one of my favorite lyricists, but I did not have a real appreciation for this album until seeing the movie and now reading the book again.

The movie did a pretty good job keeping to the book’s story line, which it should since it is based on a true story. Of course, the book has more depth than the movie, but beyond that, it also has a couple chapters devoted to Krakauer’s own harrowing experience in the wild, as he attempted to climb the ice covered Devil’s Thumb — in winter — in which Mother Nature showed him who is boss. (And I’ve been there too!, though maybe not quite as bad.) But that added depth and reflection by Krakauer, and the relevance to McCandless’s own tale, which is left out of the movie, is well worth it.

The book also made me want to read Jack London, Tolstoy (which I have already purchased Family Happiness and is my next book in queue). I tried to read War and Peace a few years ago, and just never got in to it. I had to put it down after a couple hundred pages. McCandless speaks very highly of it … “powerful and highly symbolic” and “has things that escape most people” as he puts it. And it so happens that I sat next to a guy on a plane that was reading Anna Karina, and we talked about War and Peace, and he also said I need to pick it up again.

There are several great quotes Krakauer included, some of which made it into the movie. For this blog entry, I will include quotes from Krakauer and McCandless, but longer quotes from other authors I will put in their own blog entries.

…[don’t] fail to discover all the wonderful things that God has placed around us to discover. Don’t settle down and sit in one place. Move around, be nomadic, make each day a new horizon.” — McCandless

Children can be harsh judges when it comes to their parents, disinclined to grant clemency….” — Krakauer

I used to get the trance like state of what he described below when racing sometimes, usually when paddling on the 2nd night of a 3-day race, and you become separated from your body. Krakauer was describing a long ice climb, though…

A trance-like state settles over your efforts, the climb becomes a clear-eyed dream. Hours slide by like minutes. The accumulated clutter of day-to-day existence — the lapses of conscience, the unpaid bills, the bungled opportunities, the dust under the couch, the inescapable prison of your genes [ !! interesting how he through this in !!] — all of it is temporarily forgotten, crowded from your thoughts by an overpowering clarity of purpose and by the seriousness of the task at hand.

It is easy, when you are young, to believe that what you desire is no less than what you deserve, to assume that if you want something badly enough, it is your God-given right to have it. — Krakauer

But I came to appreciate that mountains [ or whatever you are ‘pursuing’ ] make poor receptacles for dreams.

It is interesting how this theme, or variations on it, seems to keep coming up!

Circumstance has no value. It is how one relates to a situation that has value. All true meaning resides in the personal relationship to a phenomenon, what it means to you. – McCandless

Happiness is only real when shared… — McCandless.

The Prestige.

This is a fascinating story of two magicians caught in a game of one-upmanship. I can’t say more than that regarding the plot, without spoiling it.

The movie starts with a scene of just a few seconds, and the question “are you watching closely” is asked, and the scene is gone. Watch that scene closely. 🙂 The plot is a bit hard to follow as it jumps all around in time, without much reference/context other than what you figure out… So this would definitely would be a good movie to watch a second time.

Quotes:

man’s reach exceeds his grasp

man’s grasp exceeds his nerve

society only tolerates one change at a time

obsession is a young man’s game

man’s reach exceeds his imagination

A post worth a read….

I read Ben Franklin’s auto-biography last year (see post here), and do recall his “13 virtues.” The Art of Manliness, which I only recently discovered, has been running a series on all of them. Hopefully I can find time to go back and read the others, but this one on tranquility is really spot-on:

Art of Manliness post on Tranquility

The last paragraph matches well with one of my favorite sayings: “You can’t change the people you deal with (or the things that have happened), only your reaction to them.”